HelenDagner.com Helen Dagner's Forum    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  The time now is Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:37 pm HelenDagner.com Forum Index View unanswered posts  Forum   Topics   Posts   Last Post  Mark Stebbins' Murder Ignored By The MSP For 34 years   Mark Stebbins Occk Victim-Archives Mark last saw his Mother at approximately 12:25 p.m. at The American Legion Hall at 9 mile and Livernois in Ferndale. According to Ruth Stebbins on the radio tapes, Mark had asked her for money and she said no because he already had his allowance. Per Ruth, he didn’t seem mad, he just said okay and that he was going home to watch a movie. At 7:15 Ruth called home and Mark was not there. When she got home just before 9:00 p.m. Mark was still not home. She said she would wait one more hour and then call the police....     136 839 Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:24 pm kyobserver Jay's Occk Story-grew up in Troy Helen, all. I was referred to this site by my brother who saw the newsclips on Christopher Busch in early December. He did a bit of a search and came across the site. I had not seen or read any of the news regarding this potential new OCCK suspect at the time. I was interested because I grew up in Oakland County and was a young boy at the time of the abductions/killings. I decided to register and post my story because this is the most informative site I've seen on the subject and because I am certain I came in contact with the OCCK in 1978 and have some information to share that I have never seen discussed in the 33 years of this case. Let me explain. I grew up in Troy in the Somerset Apt. complex. I was of similar age to Mark, Kristine, Jill, and Tim at the time. In the Fall of 1978, I was 10 and, one morning in October, was walking alone to my bus stop on Dorchester Rd. I remember some of the details vividly, others not as well. I was carrying my books and trumpet in its case walking south. I was nearing the bus stop (about 100 ft. from it) just sort of daydreaming as I recall and not paying much attention to my surroundings. I do recall it was early and noone else was at the bus stop ahead, noone actually in site though it was fairly light out already. Continue Inside......     107 702 Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:47 pm Sam Kristine Mihelich Occk Victim-Archives It's just so sad these four beautiful kids never had the chance to grow up. But, what's even worse is the Monster who took their life still roams free! It is far past time for Michigan Law Enforcement to solve these murders. Here's a start for them. Try going back to Mark's case. Investigate each case, individually! If a suspect happens to... let's say, be at the ALH the day Mark disappeared, maybe take classes from Mr. Robinson, work near Jill's abduction site - maybe as a Santa for JC Penny (?) AND there was a witness who saw him at the Hunter Maple Pharmacy ... than maybe you should bring him in for questioning! It's really too bad the task force ignored Casual Observer's MIL, or this case could have been solved 30+ years ago. Lferg     36 374 Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:41 pm Sam WELL-HELEN HAS THIS TO SAY ABOUT THAT!!! This is a collection of really stupid things-people have posted about me on the Internet~     9 63 Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:30 pm Helen Dagner UFO News Archives From Around The World {This Forum is read in 70 Countries}-SoMany?s creates short animation videos that have a unique blend of obscurity and humor involving the UFO phenomenon and satire toward the debunkers. His YouTube videos have been featured on Alien Casebook, The Debris Field, The Cosmic Lens, CoastToCoast, Paradigm Research Group, BackYardPhenomena, and other web sites. He has been trying to prove and convince himself and the researchers that he met Melvin Brown and his family in Michigan in 1971 and was told part of the Roswell story at that time. Moderator SoMany?s Moderator SoMany?s 1705 5116 Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:09 pm SoMany?s Michigan State Police Detective Sgt. Mike Scott was the final witness called The Springers are charged with felony murder, torture and first-degree child abuse in connection with a Feb. 27, 2008, fire that killed their daughter, 16-year-old Calista Springer, while she was chained to her bed in the family’s Centreville home. Scott testified that during an hour-long interview the day after the fire, Marsha Springer told him the parents had been using a dog choke chain and plastic ties to restrain Calista to her bed for just a few days prior to the fire ....     115 739 Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:21 pm Helen Dagner Don Studt Named Birmingham Police Chief     35 219 Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:12 am Casual Observer Have the King and other victim's families raised the white flag? Have the King and other victim's families raised the white flag or are they still actively pursuing justice? It seems the noise made in October/November has quieted down somewhat. Not even close. Fuck that & fuck them. If MSP thinks for one second these families are giving up or rolling over as they have for the past 33 years, they are in for the ride of their lives. This has only just begun….these broke dick detectives who have been nursing their “careers” had better start gathering the donuts in the box, their day is coming. Soaking tax payers for millions of dollars and hope for families has all been shot to hell; all because these lazy fucks wont get off their asses and do the jobs they are employed to do! AND WE PAY FOR THIS!!!! I bet Gray still has his retirement aka free ride countdown on his computer… I should have taken a baseball bat to it when I had the opportunity. “A manual on now to organize such an operation” -Robertson Sr. how about “not to organize such an operation, clearly we don’t know what we are doing.” Worry about the price of a God damn piece of furniture? WTF? Where are your priorities people? Does anyone know where Robertson Sr. is buried? I feel the need to piss on his grave...dirty bastard. This makes my blood boil! They had better get off their fat, lazy asses and pursue ALL the information. Leave no clue untested. Had they done this properly 33 years ago, it would have saved a shit ton of money & turmoil for these families. The bacons frying. These sick pigs are going to squeal. James Lee     10 91 Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:14 am Casual Observer Jill Robinson Occk Victim-Archives It was the day after Christmas 1976...Jill Robinson, spent her day...along the snowy shoulder of busy Interstate 75, near Troy Michigan....there you were Jill, on your 12 Christmas....alone. With your backpack and all, with the left side of your face and head blown off by a shot gun...the grisly discovery was made by a passing motorist...on his way home...to share Christmas...with his children.----The pathologist report said that you died from shock and hemorrhage due to a shotgun....However the killer told me...you were already dead, when he shot you....Insignificant perhaps,because in the final analysis by whatever means, you were dead Jill.....There was a lot of symbolism in your murder Jill, I was told by the killer -that there were many reasons for the shotgun blast to your face...one was to leave a very significant clue....the police never did pick up on it...but non the less...it gave your killer a sense of pride as the barrel of that shotgun carried his family name...also the Kaleidoscopic eyes mention in your favorite song -Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds...The killer was afraid....you might bear witness against him after your death...The killer told me..... Jill may have known the killer or that perhaps you saw something ...that the other children didn't see...so he destroyed that part of you that offended him... Helen     20 144 Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:19 am Lferg Alpena_Witness - Reasoning - To Victim's Family Members I wonder how many readers and LE filchers think we all know each other? The reality is, I have never met Helen, Alpena/Reasoning, Lferg, Too Close etc. I have, in fact, met Sam and am amazed and impressed at the vast law background and personal intuition that Sam possesses. None of us lives near each other, we don't call each other often ( I could count on my appendages how many times I have spoken to Helen in 7 years) - yet we all work toward the same thing-- justice for the children who became victims. Helen didn't seek out to find someone who would engage her for 9 months and tell her about the OCCK horrors. Alpena certainly didn't go to Big Boy to eavesdrop on a conversation that was weird, unbelievable and real and he certainly didn't know it meant anything until YEARS later. It is serendipitous that he made the connection between that night and the OCCK at all. I spent a good year deciding whether or not I should contact the woman whose experience I read on the internet in 2001 both because I was dubious and I didn't want to enter or stir anything for the King family that they did not want to face. My gut told me to go for it and that decision brought me to new enlightenment about the case as well as allowed me to reconnect with old friends as WE ALL work toward finishing what the police SHOULD have been able to do in 1978. That fact is, all of us have come together in a unique and fascinating manner that has furthered this horror saga farther than it has ever gone before. We all believe we have a good grasp on who the killer is, what happened and how it all went down. And all of it has strengthened the credibility of Helen's 9 months with John. We all know it, and so does LE. Now it's just about how much they think we know, versus what we really know and they are going to lose every time until they can face and accept the truth and acknowledge their colossal failure. CO     59 443 Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:15 pm Reasoning Mug Shot & Sketch Christopher Brian Busch Helen, On his arrest sheet, he was listed as 5'8, 250lb, husky with a scar. It also said he was from Alma, Michigan and worked at the Scotsman Resturant in Alma. The date was 1-28-77 and the mug shot was from Genesse County. Busch was a long ways away from Oakland County. Do you want his other information? There is no way Busch was the Occk. Check out the file I'm sending you.I thought you may want it to go with the big story your writing on him.You were right there was never any report about a fat man with a scar ever being involved or with a beard. Don and yet another -Matt writes-Helen,So I was thinking. Who would have enough power to get Busch’s sentence reduced to probation? George Romney was appointed Secretary of HUD in 1969, resigned as Governor the same day, and was succeeded by his Lt. Governor William G. Milliken who remained Governor until 1983. Romney lived in Bloomfield Hills, and prior to his political career he was a CEO of American Motors Corp. Milliken was born and raised in Traverse City – so far I haven’t found a connection to the auto industry. Could H. Lee have had enough influence for the Governor to intervene in Busch’s case? There is no doubt in my mind that due to his position at GM, and living in such close proximity, H. Lee Busch would have known Romney and probably Milliken. Both Romney and Milliken were highly respected men in Michigan and I don’t mean to imply they had knowledge that he could be the OCCK. But, if they did help Chris, than maybe that would explain why the MSP are trying to keep this quiet.Do you want the Photo I have Of Busch Sr. and Milliken? Give the word and it will be on it's way! Matt     64 860 Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:18 am Casual Observer RAGES~RANTS & REVEALATIONS-FEEDBACK-OCCK-FEEDBACK Hey Helen, I thought about what you said to me about the cops (MSP) doing things and timing things in order to "punish" the families who spoke out. At first I thought--"no way." But the more I think about it, the more I think you are right. That's why they called the Kings in to that little powwow after the story in The Detroit News--to pull them up short. Yeah, they are that petty and cruel. I guess it comes naturally to them. They are used to pulling (or NOT pulling) all of the strings and having people bow to their great wisdom endowed upon them by their badges. What a joke. Sam     22 1174 Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:19 pm Sam WINTERS FEARS~THE OAKLAND COUNTY CHILD SLAYINGS ~INVESTIGATION IN SOUND "Winter's Fears"~1977....WXYZ presents~1 hour special on Occk....David Newman/ sound taken from original tape/Winner-Peabody Award-1977~     10 64 Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:28 am kyobserver Timothy King Occk Victim-Archives The abduction and murders of these 4 children should not remain Unsolved-this act of killing Mark,Jill,Kristine and Tim has touched so many people adversely for 32-33 years that it simply is not enough to keep their memory alive-we must seek Justice for the victims..their families..and all of us-we can-not do this without Devine Intervention...as GOD is the only one who can find a way were there is no way...Please Pray...     43 462 Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:01 am kyobserver ROGUE'S GALLERY-PHOTOS-Occk He wanted to cause the upper class deep and permanent pain, he decided that since money could be replaced the only way to do it was to strike at their children, besides this was something he could do, were as taking their money was beyond his ability...each killing gave him a sense of power and significance and intellectual superiority...yet some how he felt he was saving the children...     87 394 Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:52 am Helen Dagner Photos -Occk -Journey Wow Helen! That is the most comprehensive compilation of media and personal photos concerning the OCCK that can be found anywhere on the internet. I've looked at those things thousands of times and still find something that catches my eye. The photo of the search for Tim in Poppleton Park is, for me, like a moment taken directly from my mind's eye except from a different angle. I was watching through a back window from behind the evergreen trees.Casual Observer     66 592 Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:51 pm Helen Dagner Alpena Witness-Occk This person is taking everything ‘literally’ that has been written by Helen and misinterpreting it and finding contradictions. This is an easy game to play and can be done with anyone's writing. This person continues on about ‘Alpina Witness’, I believe that’s where I come into the picture but it would be nice if this intellect would at least learn how to spell it. This person calls my testimony an ‘ernest story’. I don’t even know what that means. My spell check doesn’t like the word ‘ernest’. Then he goes on questioning the ‘coincidence’ of it all. What does this person mean by that? For someone that is picking away at all of Helen’s writing, why does he write so poorly himself or herself? What is this person trying to convey? What are we even talking about a ‘coincidence’ of what? Is it a coincidence that the Big Boy restaurant is in my old neighborhood? A coincidence that I use to hang out there often through the years? A coincidence that I had close ties to that restaurant at one time long before this incident in 91? Is it coincidence that I was in town that night and can prove it? Is it that hard to believe that I went there and heard portions of the discussion? How many of you would remember something like this if it happened to you? I didn’t believe what I was hearing at the time so I didn’t go running to the police but I certainly remember it like it was yesterday....     18 2758 Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:54 am Helen Dagner John McKinney-Occk News Archives of helendagner.com ~August 11,1977 Interview~ On Monday, September 20, 1977, John McKinney, 50 years old from Birmingham, Michigan was shot to death in his small office at his Birmingham Gallery, located at 1025 Haynes. The only way to enter John's office was by a rear door off the gallery parking lot, east of the building. Police theorize that John knew his murderer since there were no signs of forced entry; there were drinks found poured, but untouched; and because his gallery was closed that day. All that was taken from the gallery was a wrapped fiber wall hanging, all his other art was still at the gallery. Two hours before he was killed John was seen having dinner with an unknown woman at a Troy restaurant. Police are trying to locate this woman. Police feel there were two people involved in the murder. John's car was found parked next to the gallery. An Autopsy showed one gun shot wound to the temple and that John may have been pistol-whipped about the head. There was a considerable amount of blood at the scene. John lived in Clawson and he had a son and a daughter. John was also a Chaplain who spent Sundays visiting the elderly as a volunteer.     65 521 Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:42 pm Casual Observer CASE FILE JOHN McKINNEY~OAKLAND COUNTY ANOTHER UNSOLVED! Someone knows who killed John McKinney....     46 508 Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:55 pm kyobserver ~OCCK-ARCHIVES-AA Ted Lamborgine- Is- Not- Our-Man!     76 452 Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:07 am Helen Dagner OCCK ARCHIVES~BB THE NEW OCCK TASK FORCE MAIL TO & FROM HELEN.....     18 87 Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:08 am Helen Dagner OCCK ARCHIVES- CC Theodore Weesner on true crime, literary awards and Helen     57 456 Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:09 am Helen Dagner ~OCCK-ARCHIVES-A POKING AROUND FOR SOMETHING WE DIDN'T WANT TO FIND~     73 141 Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:34 pm kyobserver ~OCCK-ARCHIVES-D I HAVE TO ASK~WHAT REALLY DID HAPPEN?-DET. ANGER     32 99 Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:54 pm kyobserver Welcome to the All Native American Tribes genealogy/history forum Over One Million Views~ Moderator beverly bourque 35 786 Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:02 pm beverly bourque From The Desk Of YOOPERNEWSMAN Danish Days 2009 videos: Dancers, Author Joy Ibsen ~The truth about the BOMB: Come to Monastery near Los Alamos     104 126 Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:28 pm SoMany?s Welcome to the Wolf Den Your Spice Rack is a Medicine Cabinet Moderator LoneWolfBunn 91 544 Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:14 pm LoneWolfBunn Into The Fire Storm-Foreword by Don Shawhan- Introduction by R.L. Edinger {Don is my "Big Brother"} Reenacting and studying the history of the Civil War has been a longtime hobby of mine. This was spurred by the fact that I have ancestors who fought in the War Between the States, both North and South. My family itself even opposed each other as they lived in Kentucky, a divided state – some were Confederate, some were Union. I chose to reenact the 5th Wisconsin because, as a long-time resident of Manitowoc, Wisconsin, and a Civil War buff, Company A, 5th Wisconsin, was the first Unit to leave Manitowoc near the beginning of the war. The new Company, at first called the Manitowoc Guards, drilled at Union Park on the North Side of town in Manitowoc. Freedom and unity was foremost in their hearts.{More}     447 2436 Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:56 am Helen Dagner New Sketches Of California Serial killer     126 1352 Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:44 am Helen Dagner Brother Of Serial Killer Victim Speaks Out     66 181 Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:05 pm Lferg Victims Should Never Give Up HOPE!     278 921 Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:54 pm Helen Dagner Serial Killer Developes Hatred Of Women     190 449 Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:36 pm kyobserver Another Green River Killer Victim??     99 646 Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:10 am Helen Dagner Cass Corridor Isn't What It Used To Be!     55 193 Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:24 pm Helen Dagner 'Quiet' teacher who confessed to three murders 'could be Belgium's latest serial killer'     220 496 Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:22 pm Helen Dagner Body of missing Maryland girl found Sex offender charged in disappearance of 11-year-old in Eastern Shore     112 184 Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:42 pm Helen Dagner How To Live Happier On 75 Percent Less     170 343 Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:24 am Helen Dagner Suspect In Abduction Investigated As Serial Killer     157 384 Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:16 am Helen Dagner   Serial Killer Dies In Prison     55 278 Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:59 pm Helen Dagner FBI releases new data on serial killers     17 37 Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:33 pm Helen Dagner Prosecutor details 5 killings in Calif. case against man whose convictions overturned twice     8 85 Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:47 pm Helen Dagner Russia targets asteroid headed for Earth     69 120 Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:08 pm Helen Dagner WHY GOD MADE MOMS     38 73 Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:49 pm IsReal All times are GMT - 5 Hours Who is Online Our users have posted a total of 26932 articles We have 269 registered users The newest registered user is emptydesk In total there are 2 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 2 Guests   [ Administrator ]   [ Moderator ] Most users ever online was 191 on Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:01 am Registered Users: None This data is based on users active over the past five minutes Log in Username:    Password:      Log me on automatically each visit     New posts    No new posts    Forum is locked Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group